I hate to say the truth but after living in Italy for 15 years Italian women are very difficult to befriend compared to my international friends here, and people from my country as well. It’s hard to be close friends with Italian women because they are very envious, they are not used to saying the truth but beat around the bush and make excuses because it comes off as more polite than just saying they don’t want to do something. They also are not independent, their mindset is very old-school and they act like they can’t drive on the interstate, or go out for a girls night because they have a husband. I can’t take the constant negativity and come tutto è sempre difficile. It’s pretty much a debby downer!
Hi Jessica, I'm sorry you experienced that pattern. I have heard the envy thing before, but in my experience, it might have a regional component. But I'm not a woman, so I can't speak in first person. Where in Italy are you based? Some areas get that reputation a lot more than others.
Jessica, I understand exactly what you’re talking about! Even my landlady in Palermo has told me the same thing. She has very few friends outside her family circle.
Antonio, this was a great post. It offers insight as well as the benefit of personal experience in other countries and regions. This makes such a strong case for immersing oneself in the Italian language and consistently showing up - one of the most important things about friendship anywhere!
Look I was walking in Pozzalo in a random street with the girls. A guy come out a building and started a conversation. Middle aged guy just like me. Wearing suits, etc,, did not look insane, drunk or gay, or anything like that. Asked where are we from - and finally we exchanged our phone numbers and parted as friends...
This mostly tracks for me. Though Genoa is my favorite city in the world, and I think its famed suspicion of outsiders is at least a little performative. (Context: lived there for a relatively short time years ago, have returned often, made the kind of lifelong friendships where you go a few years between visits and then pick up right where you left off)
This tallies with my time in Rome. Basically moved away until I learnt Italian well enough for it to make sense to move back. One question, however: any advice for someone considering moving to Verona instead of Rome?
I’ve been in Rome for 20+ years (most of it in one neighborhood), so I’m not a good test case.
I have plenty of Italian friends, and I did almost from the start. But I had an Italian girlfriend early on and so “inherited” her friends. She and I are no longer together, but I’m still in contact with some of those friends.
Outside that example, I’ve noticed a few things: it’s harder for me to become real friends with upper crust Italians, and Italians transplanted from other parts of Italy are easier to befriend (which lines up with what you wrote). I big symbolic step: getting invited to someone’s home.
I’m approaching 9 months living in a small seaside town in southern Italy with an ever-growing expat population (mostly Americans like me). All that Antonio said about expat groups (the pros and the cons) has been my exact experience. I have a few expat friends but didn’t move all the way to Italy to be in a “little America”.
Like most small towns in the south, the Italians here were born and raised with social circles formed during childhood and family ties that I assume go back generations. As a single, middle-aged foreign woman I’m a bit of an anomaly and have no expectations to break into an Italian friend circle anytime soon and I’m okay with that. As my Italian and confidence to speak it improves, so do my interactions with the locals. I enjoy making my daily rounds at the panificio and frutti vendolo where they always put extras in my bags and the coffee bar where they know my order.
I’m still settling in and after I get my permesso di soggiorno renewed and finish tackling my patente di guida, I’d like to get more involved in the community though it is tough while working a full-time remote job on US east coast hours. I used to be in the military so I have moved around a lot and eventually made
friends wherever I landed but it took a lot of time. I am not expecting the process of making friends in Italy to be quick by any means.
Thank you for sharing, Beth. I moved around a lot myself and have a similar story when it comes to making friends. Of course, in my case, I find it easier to make friends in Italy.
Having children really helps. We lived in Martignano (provincia di Trento) for a few years, and found that fitting in is easier when the kids go to the local school; you soon meet the parents of their friends, who run the local businesses. Obviously you can’t borrow someone’s kids, but a friendly dog does help!
Great tip, Barbara. I floated the dog idea in the article, but you’re right that kids are the full version of it. The school run alone plugs you into half the parent network in a small town.
Very helpful to many. However, when you're sn ex-pat, the first thing is register at your embassy. That gives you an instant tie-in to your nationality. There will also be an International community you can join. Tourist Information can also be of assistance. If you have some knowledge of the language, that will go a long way.
I just find gay men in new places.
I hate to say the truth but after living in Italy for 15 years Italian women are very difficult to befriend compared to my international friends here, and people from my country as well. It’s hard to be close friends with Italian women because they are very envious, they are not used to saying the truth but beat around the bush and make excuses because it comes off as more polite than just saying they don’t want to do something. They also are not independent, their mindset is very old-school and they act like they can’t drive on the interstate, or go out for a girls night because they have a husband. I can’t take the constant negativity and come tutto è sempre difficile. It’s pretty much a debby downer!
Hi Jessica, I'm sorry you experienced that pattern. I have heard the envy thing before, but in my experience, it might have a regional component. But I'm not a woman, so I can't speak in first person. Where in Italy are you based? Some areas get that reputation a lot more than others.
Jessica, I understand exactly what you’re talking about! Even my landlady in Palermo has told me the same thing. She has very few friends outside her family circle.
Antonio, this was a great post. It offers insight as well as the benefit of personal experience in other countries and regions. This makes such a strong case for immersing oneself in the Italian language and consistently showing up - one of the most important things about friendship anywhere!
Thank you, Diane. Italian is absolutely key to making friends in Italy. It can't be overstated.
It is this hard:
Look I was walking in Pozzalo in a random street with the girls. A guy come out a building and started a conversation. Middle aged guy just like me. Wearing suits, etc,, did not look insane, drunk or gay, or anything like that. Asked where are we from - and finally we exchanged our phone numbers and parted as friends...
This mostly tracks for me. Though Genoa is my favorite city in the world, and I think its famed suspicion of outsiders is at least a little performative. (Context: lived there for a relatively short time years ago, have returned often, made the kind of lifelong friendships where you go a few years between visits and then pick up right where you left off)
This tallies with my time in Rome. Basically moved away until I learnt Italian well enough for it to make sense to move back. One question, however: any advice for someone considering moving to Verona instead of Rome?
I’ve been in Rome for 20+ years (most of it in one neighborhood), so I’m not a good test case.
I have plenty of Italian friends, and I did almost from the start. But I had an Italian girlfriend early on and so “inherited” her friends. She and I are no longer together, but I’m still in contact with some of those friends.
Outside that example, I’ve noticed a few things: it’s harder for me to become real friends with upper crust Italians, and Italians transplanted from other parts of Italy are easier to befriend (which lines up with what you wrote). I big symbolic step: getting invited to someone’s home.
I’m approaching 9 months living in a small seaside town in southern Italy with an ever-growing expat population (mostly Americans like me). All that Antonio said about expat groups (the pros and the cons) has been my exact experience. I have a few expat friends but didn’t move all the way to Italy to be in a “little America”.
Like most small towns in the south, the Italians here were born and raised with social circles formed during childhood and family ties that I assume go back generations. As a single, middle-aged foreign woman I’m a bit of an anomaly and have no expectations to break into an Italian friend circle anytime soon and I’m okay with that. As my Italian and confidence to speak it improves, so do my interactions with the locals. I enjoy making my daily rounds at the panificio and frutti vendolo where they always put extras in my bags and the coffee bar where they know my order.
I’m still settling in and after I get my permesso di soggiorno renewed and finish tackling my patente di guida, I’d like to get more involved in the community though it is tough while working a full-time remote job on US east coast hours. I used to be in the military so I have moved around a lot and eventually made
friends wherever I landed but it took a lot of time. I am not expecting the process of making friends in Italy to be quick by any means.
Thank you for sharing, Beth. I moved around a lot myself and have a similar story when it comes to making friends. Of course, in my case, I find it easier to make friends in Italy.
Having children really helps. We lived in Martignano (provincia di Trento) for a few years, and found that fitting in is easier when the kids go to the local school; you soon meet the parents of their friends, who run the local businesses. Obviously you can’t borrow someone’s kids, but a friendly dog does help!
Great tip, Barbara. I floated the dog idea in the article, but you’re right that kids are the full version of it. The school run alone plugs you into half the parent network in a small town.
Very helpful to many. However, when you're sn ex-pat, the first thing is register at your embassy. That gives you an instant tie-in to your nationality. There will also be an International community you can join. Tourist Information can also be of assistance. If you have some knowledge of the language, that will go a long way.
There is no way I am registering with my embassy, they already spy on us enough back home.