I'm an American, and I DEFINITELY like one culture better than the other. I think American casualness is rude (and a change from 40 years ago), and a big part of the reason why Americans are so lonely and anxious.
i understand. my italian friends are very serious about "showing up" - i was very careful about making plans with my family (with them, honestly once a month is enough - but for cousin luigi, it was not enough! ("come back comb back next week and spend the night!"). i agree however cancelling anything the day of short of an emergency is rude. i mean after all, i did my shopping for us that morning!
I was born in Canada to Italian parents. I grew up seeing my cousins all the time. We'd get together for any reason. It's Friday night? Great, let's get together. It's Saturday night? Fantastic let's get together. Christmas, New Year's Eve, Easter, Canada Day, Sugo time, Thanksgiving, birthdays, anniversaries, baptisms, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, you name it.
Problem is, tho, I'm an introvert. A weekend with zero plans is a joy. Now, I don't cancel at the last minute unless I'm sick, the car breaks down or the weather creates a legitimate safety concern for travel. Yet, I turn down the odd invitation and secretly white knuckle thru those that follow previous gatherings too closely.
I love my big Italian family gatherings, I really do, but, as an introvert, I get overstimulated pretty quickly and need my alone time to recuperate. Few people understand, let alone respect, this reality.
This makes so much sense to me. None of my Italian friends (ranging from Italians born in Italy to those born in the UK to Italian parents/grandparents) cancel last min (other than for emergencies), if we're having dinner, we're having dinner. I think there's a cultural difference- we view having a meal together as being a good time and, to use modern parlance, protective of our mental health. Whereas there's been a big move to cancelling plans to stay at home alone to protect mental health.
I spent a few months in Rome a few years ago. I’m a landscape painter, and basically spend much of my time outside painting or sketching.
I fell in with a group of mostly Italian painters. They were out painting as a group several days a week for years. This is so different from the US, where even with close sketching friends you might only get together a few times a year.
But I saw the difference, for the Italians, the social aspect of it was more important than anything. Why paint alone, when you can meet three friends and do it together?
And I don’t know about Canada, but if you cancel a dinner invitation in the US last minute, unless you’re in the hospital, that’s really, really rude. it wouldn’t be acceptable, especially if there was consistency behind your changes of plans.
Canceling plans is quite commonplace in NYC. I truly only do it if I am sick, otherwise I go, even if I am tired and have to drag myself out. And 9 times out of 10 I am so happy I did!
Glad to learn that flaking isn’t the norm in Italy like it is in a lot of the US. When I lived in NYC, I had friends cancel plans all the time whether we were meeting somewhere or I was hosting at my place. I got somewhat used to it and there were a few times I regrettably cancelled last minute myself. I started making plans around the fact that people would likely not show up. Like Antonio, I have been stuck with a pan of lasagna (which luckily freezes well) and a ton of tiramisu (which unfortunately doesn’t last long) after friends bailed on me for a dinner that I spent hours (and $$$) preparing. Now I care a lot more about showing up for things and it feels rude to cancel because someone “doesn’t feel like it” or got too busy. I make my plans with others a priority and it feels disrespectful if they cancel last minute and I don’t make an effort to invite them again.
Cancelling on the day of a planned dinner for any reason other than a medical emergency is just rude. Plain and simple.
Yup
Italians never run out of things to say!
Haha, fair point.
I'm an American, and I DEFINITELY like one culture better than the other. I think American casualness is rude (and a change from 40 years ago), and a big part of the reason why Americans are so lonely and anxious.
i understand. my italian friends are very serious about "showing up" - i was very careful about making plans with my family (with them, honestly once a month is enough - but for cousin luigi, it was not enough! ("come back comb back next week and spend the night!"). i agree however cancelling anything the day of short of an emergency is rude. i mean after all, i did my shopping for us that morning!
Yes, this is a difficult one for me.
I was born in Canada to Italian parents. I grew up seeing my cousins all the time. We'd get together for any reason. It's Friday night? Great, let's get together. It's Saturday night? Fantastic let's get together. Christmas, New Year's Eve, Easter, Canada Day, Sugo time, Thanksgiving, birthdays, anniversaries, baptisms, communions, confirmations, weddings, funerals, you name it.
Problem is, tho, I'm an introvert. A weekend with zero plans is a joy. Now, I don't cancel at the last minute unless I'm sick, the car breaks down or the weather creates a legitimate safety concern for travel. Yet, I turn down the odd invitation and secretly white knuckle thru those that follow previous gatherings too closely.
I love my big Italian family gatherings, I really do, but, as an introvert, I get overstimulated pretty quickly and need my alone time to recuperate. Few people understand, let alone respect, this reality.
This makes so much sense to me. None of my Italian friends (ranging from Italians born in Italy to those born in the UK to Italian parents/grandparents) cancel last min (other than for emergencies), if we're having dinner, we're having dinner. I think there's a cultural difference- we view having a meal together as being a good time and, to use modern parlance, protective of our mental health. Whereas there's been a big move to cancelling plans to stay at home alone to protect mental health.
I spent a few months in Rome a few years ago. I’m a landscape painter, and basically spend much of my time outside painting or sketching.
I fell in with a group of mostly Italian painters. They were out painting as a group several days a week for years. This is so different from the US, where even with close sketching friends you might only get together a few times a year.
But I saw the difference, for the Italians, the social aspect of it was more important than anything. Why paint alone, when you can meet three friends and do it together?
And I don’t know about Canada, but if you cancel a dinner invitation in the US last minute, unless you’re in the hospital, that’s really, really rude. it wouldn’t be acceptable, especially if there was consistency behind your changes of plans.
Canceling plans is quite commonplace in NYC. I truly only do it if I am sick, otherwise I go, even if I am tired and have to drag myself out. And 9 times out of 10 I am so happy I did!
I too experience this. I might hesitate to go, but then I'm so happy I went.
My two best friends here (Italy) cancel last minute all the time. It's so common I just expect it and it doesn't bother me anymore.
Are they Italian?
Yes. I don't know any expats in my area.
Yeah, there are definitely exceptions.
Glad to learn that flaking isn’t the norm in Italy like it is in a lot of the US. When I lived in NYC, I had friends cancel plans all the time whether we were meeting somewhere or I was hosting at my place. I got somewhat used to it and there were a few times I regrettably cancelled last minute myself. I started making plans around the fact that people would likely not show up. Like Antonio, I have been stuck with a pan of lasagna (which luckily freezes well) and a ton of tiramisu (which unfortunately doesn’t last long) after friends bailed on me for a dinner that I spent hours (and $$$) preparing. Now I care a lot more about showing up for things and it feels rude to cancel because someone “doesn’t feel like it” or got too busy. I make my plans with others a priority and it feels disrespectful if they cancel last minute and I don’t make an effort to invite them again.